. Listen to yourself, Brad! Ok, except that no one I know has heard of Willow Creek or Bill Hybels. I think there can be a benefit when many people have a genuine need for human touch. He lied when he told the Monday night Family Meeting that the unhappy marriage comment in the Tribune was just the result of a check-in.. She was running with him outside. Not out of God directly pushing the SMITE button, but that Davids actions set chains of events in action that later came around to bite back HARD. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. He was the it guy on leadership in those circles for some reason. Its uncomfortable but is it anything really? Im not saying any of that is right. @ dee: Wow!!! There is ignorance going on but you may be pointing in the wrong direction. On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. The elders at Willow Creek Community Church tonight sent an email to congregants, stating that the church is "heartbroken" over the "abuse" of a congregant. 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. Having seen some of the comments by WCC supporters left at TWW, I can imagine the pressure and pain that she has had to face with her account. Why? Among the prominent U.S. and Palestinian church voices who spoke was Lynne Hybels, co-founder with her pastor husband Bill of the Chicago area Willow Creek Church, which itself spawned a . And then maybe they see it happening, confront the guy, he says understood and suddenly you and your husband are out of a job. (1 Cor. Huge. Moths making holes in a cloak, Id just as soon do away with megas altogether, and I doubt anybody would even try either, but it might be better than placing the popularity of a church on a single person. People we once thought of as reasonable become angry. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? As it has been stated in widening circles of social media, under these circumstances (such as: improper investigation, witness discounting/tampering/intemadation, and most important lack of following scriptural guidelines) the Willow Creek 501(c)3 church organization by many credible voices has been deemed/proscribed as no longer a(n) safe or scriptural place to attend or be a part of. It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer.. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! He also told them this parable: Can the blind lead the blind? Try finding a church now that sings traditional hymns or doesnt use projectors and worship teams. I pity you if thats the case. As this onion is being peeled back, it really gives us an insight into life at the top tier of a megachurch. Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. But it is the structure, really. IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. The woman alleging an affair with Bill said that she was suicidal, both to Leanne and to Bill. A cheap way to expand. Bill Cosby, no less, but under the umbrella of a church. The Gospels that I read portray a Jesus that constainly questioned the established and told parables about what is moral that makes you walk away and think. We must judge actions and , if they are wrong, we must pass judgement on them, even if it is one of our beloved leaders. Please take a look at the situation in 1 Coninthians 5. The answer is quite simple. Its not the victim. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. Lawrence Krauss is a famous atheist and liberal crusader and, in certain whisper networks, a well-known problem, according to author Peter Aldhous, in his article on *BuzzFeed*. What BH did is reprehensible. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist! We experience the aftermath to this day. We have a problem with people who just do not care, apparently, that theyre engaging in classic rationalization techniques to minimize something that is quite serious. Think carefully. WITCHES! Marquet changed the Leader-Follower traditional naval paradigm to Leader-Allocate Control, resulting in success for all. @ Law Prof: Second guessing somebodys way of dealing with their own spouse is usually really wrong. Let me give you some good news. Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. To choose to continue to take a medication in spite of those side effects, when there are so many other sleep aids available, makes no sense. I believe her account. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Big. ) bugs me. Oh yeah. If I were a member, I would call for a complete replacement. @ #UnbiblicalPaths: I do believe that he may have gone through a time of repentance and contrition, as much as he may understand that he needs to, and has come to the other side of it and that is the reason that he may not seem as repentant as they expect. tax. Interesting how you get it, but those in high places do not. I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. !) called Give Me That Christian Side Hug went near-viral. It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. I am all for systemic analysis and the big-picture view. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/, Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. Willow Creek does not need a *incredible* leader. Glad I found that out. Well said, Betty! We could apply those words to the most recent statement by Mr Hybels. . That is where I had to start over. When will people get it that the church is not the same thing as the body of Christ. It is sadly, surprisingly easy. For someone who set himself up as a leader of leaders, Hybels made a critical leadership mistake here. Think about it. Im not trying to do anything but reel in my disappointment in what has been going on at Willow Creek. Speak the Word when it is time and serve with love always. Below, what to know about the Bill Hybels scandal. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Think about it. I sat on a committee for two years which did nothing but brainstorm ways to increase retention rates and decrease progression time through our programsour biggest nightmare was the student who didnt get connected to some group, we knew they were likely to get lonely, drop out, go back to their hometown and become a settled-in townie. I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. The Eleven and Jesus followers went on to be faithful in following their Lord in establishing the Church by the power of the Holy Spirit. https://futuristguymedia.wordpress.com/thresholds-of-evidence/. There is nothing wrong with this picture, this is the way it happens. Our job is to call. I underestimated their ability to constantly reinvent themselves to keep the money flowing. By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. May God raise up more people like Josiah who tore down the high places and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God until Jesus becomes the only thing worshipped in the church. Ive been silently wondering the same. Yet, the faith grew in the midst of these awful circumstances. Does Willow Creek teach leaders how to marginailze church members that do not have the vision that the pastor does? IM HEIR TO HIS THRONE! Billy Graham, doing the work of an evangelist, told people the good news. @ Forrest: Thanks, all! she either did or didnt inform her husband immediately 1. The Body of Christ will be fine. But David and all Israel beginning at Davids own house bore the consequences of the sin. Certainly does not sound like the sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect from an informational meeting. Listen to yourself, Brad! You are guilty of judging, something you say we are not to do. I knew all this stuff from my secular org development career but did not transfer it to the church setting right way. not for this long. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. 1. Now it seems we have a culture of corruption at Willow Creek from the Top-Down. @ ishy: You forgot naked swimming, shower on the boat, and deleted emails. Oh well. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. Sounds like wing ding anti Semitic tripe. (My family attended when I was in elementary and middle school.) Its not the victim. You are now in permanent moderation. Unless, of course, its useful as an excuse if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? Amen! Publishers are pulling back for a reason. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. JIHAD! Its rarely what people are told to believe it is. Sometime in the next two weeks, I am going to write a story about a woman who was raped by her husband. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Other women are coming forward. But we are not talking about the secular world. So much! My bad for not being back in touch with you. Many friends of mine wouldnt have been willing to come to church (and eventually come to Christ) without the rock worship band and friendly-to-outsiders sermons. Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. Who are we to say which it is when somebody lances a boil and the pus drains out; but to continue the analogy the boil existed before the surgeons knife got anywhere near it. Sigh. We are as busy as they; I want to make sure I understand you. The church isnt being destroyed. This stemmed from a Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation (everything else was All Gonna Burn) where the only thing God would ask on J-Day was How Many Souls Did YOU Save? and the numbers in your sales record would be all that determined your position and rank in Heaven. Ultimately only Willow Creek congregants can decide the fate of their church sad state of affairs with millions of dollars at stake. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. The pair is living in Chicago and is blessed with two children; both boys. I know I already plugged Barbs reviews of Don Hennesseys work, but Ill say again he also describes this process really well (in the context of domestic abuse.). Number of accusations (so far) Maybe Im misinterpreting. That group togetherness thing costs big time. And worse, to make rock stars of them? All we can do is obey the Lord, do whatever it is were told by Him to do. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. Dont get me started on how mega churches operate. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. (The servants name was Malchus. No one, from the janitor to the CEO, can be deemed off limits to the moral and ethical demands of respect, decency and appropriate behavior. I think thats true for some and not others. I truly hope that WCC reexamines who they are. I understand the victim mentality, I have been a victim, but his repentance has little to do with the womens healing. Thanks for sharing the link. If they are self impressed with the numbers who attend WCC, they have a problem. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. So Im now wondering. Very valuable comment. Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? If you arent getting that from family, church and friends might conceivably help meet that need. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. And it would appear that apparently absolutely no one found the need/necessity of bringing poor pastoral attitude, grave scriptural issues, his response, and certain questionable pastoral behavior before the church as directed by scripture. Ummm-not exactly. So Im now wondering. The accusations against Hybels come from multiple women, including several former employees who spoke on the record with the Chicago Tribune as a part of a major investigation published in March . I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way maybe they never really had them. In my 9 years of writing a blog which deals with abuse issues, I have been deeply upset by the responses of Christians when their celebrity church or pastor have been shown to have clay feet. I can't apologize for his choices, but I do apologize for mine," she explained. Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. All so sad! Western Christians seem to view hell as a location whereas Eastern Christians seem to view it as a state of being. Me too. They have changed so many lives for the good. Love That Lasts book. A high five or handshake can do the same. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? I have recently become Lutheran. Whats wrong with you women? Its like a funhouse mirror of the Christianity I used to follow. Maybe thats just how he is. Im particularly disgusted by They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. I go even further with it, Jack. They were not allowed to have free and open churches-the ones that were open were beholden to the government. Im not a lawyer, but do a lot of research and writing on spiritual abuse and toxic organizational systems. You were there (especially for children) It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels unwanted attention and actions. They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. Nothing really bad happened. Since 1975, when Lynne & Bill Hybels started Willow Creek Community Church, Lynne has been an active volunteer at the church.For the last fifteen years she has engaged in ministry partnerships in under-resourced communities in Latin America and Africa. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. Boundaries, anyone? They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. I mean, one post here put Hybels name next to Weinstiens. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. To all those women that have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy. We are most certainly called to make judgements on actions. Read the books and follow the formula. Blank stares all around. Like the real estate/mortgage broker years ago who the day before the search warrant came down, backed up an industrial shredder van to their office for an all-day shred-everything party. I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. Its The guy at church who wants a side hug. Jesus Christ is the assessory. * Scripture does not discuss it that way. How many church leaders are not of His sheep ? NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. So they were flying around the world together living it up on the giving units dimes. They did, however, write books, and traveled from local church to local church. My wife worked for a Fortune 500 and did grad work in the hard sciences, she taught for a Pac12 university, I have taught law in higher ed for 15 years. Be at peace. You will be swamped with Williow Creek and Bill Hybels telling us how to and their morality. Are you really saying we would not judge anyone for anything? Character is revealed, not when things are going our way but when things are painful. @ Davis and Natasha: #metoo. She thanks you too. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. Instead, these women were displayed like his leadership trophies. All about leadership, leadership, leadership. Or would he start looking for material for making a whip? As I say if he had a true understanding of what his behavior had done he might give the kind of apology that these women want. No one. 1 comment deleted. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. And Charisma House/new Mark Driscoll book . I read it Daily and Journal too. So, Am I over thinking it?, one wonders. You make a valid point, ishy. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. I would assume these claims are multi million. How does one explain it? Is there love afte. There are too many similarities between their stories. (2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. Read Acts 2. Redemption. William Hybels (born December 12, 1951) is an American church figure and author. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. Hybels was slated to retire from his position at Willow Creek in October 2018; however, he resigned in April 2018 after allegations of sexual misconduct were made against him. @ truthseeker00: Wow!!! Hybels was an early god of the mega how to manual. I stood up and walked out. The naked woman swimming around the boat incident he related in a way to make himself appear understanding and concerned for her welfare. And you re-evaluate. @ dee: Brad I am the Bride of Christ, the Church, as are Dee and Deb and many others who post here. Where is the debater of this age? Paint her as crazy, vindictive, or loose. It was not the stature of the parities involved that was relevant, but the truth of the matter at hand. analytical thinking. By . The Elders reviewed none for content. She was still hoping that he had changed. Hybels was Clintons spiritual advisor. Convinced and groomed like Good Little Suckers/Easy Marks. They are evangelized for church. We still need to get together on that religious research thingie. I dont have to be a fan of Nancy Ortberg to take her testimony seriously. Some people stay quiet for too long, even good people. Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. It was a constant topic from a social psychological view. Not my thing. @ Lydia: Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. He was talking about how successful Sociopaths and Swindlers and Abusers are masters of Camouflage (and Misdirection)! Timing is interesting. Oh but us Little Folk, we, A dishonest person disposes everything in the hope that nothing will ever be retrieved that reveals his guilt. @ Law Prof: Standing Ovations: Whats the Difference Between Highpoint Church and Willow Creek Community Church, Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy, http://www.divorceminister.com/nancy-ortberg-shares-her-side-rebill-hybels-allegations/, https://vondadyer.weebly.com/blog/vonda-dyers-statement-re-chicago-tribune-and-bill-hybels, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0EtdtPi8w, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv72Q23lIp0, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkOke2noyc, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLT3Cb96-Mk, https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=28151%5D, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. In 2018, sexual misconduct allegations had been alleged against Bill Hybels. 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