0 responses It is after Absalom's rebellion. And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. How many rebellions were there? There is a difference. It cut us off from God. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. What is the meaning of the parable of the rich man and his manager? Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. But the massacre of the Gibeonites probably occurred after that. What might he have done? (Now the Gibeonites were not Israelites, but a remnant of the Amorites. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?" In 1 Samuel 10, Saul first tries to kill David by straight up pinning him to the wall with his spear, but David dodges twice. The Gibeonites remained enemies and aliens to the household of God forever after. Their representatives were not up front with the Israeli leaders. I haven't been keeping up on things. It is tainted.". After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. He attempted the genocide of He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. David did not make any counter demands. It certainly happened because it says there in verses 1 and 2 that Saul killed a lot of Gibeonites at some point in his reign. Something is wrong. These cagey enemies of God's people were destined to be destroyed, so they devised a simple, but clever scheme to deceive Israel in the hope of saving their own necks. God was not in all his thoughts during this time. Only when the Gibeonites were under siege from a common enemy and were calling in the marker on their mutual aid treaty did the Israelites turn to God for counsel and advice. The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. Leviticus 26:3-4 If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them, then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. Another thing that God said to do was not done. It must have been a satisfactory solution from Gods point of view, because he sent the rain on the land after the measures had been taken. It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. But they refused the offer. . He needed God to forgive him. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. WebThe alliance with the Gibeonites lasted for centuries, until Saul - in his zeal (21, 2) - decided that the ancient covenant was no longer binding. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that God punishes people for their own iniquity. Saul, after having disqualified And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). Joshua 9:22-24 Then Joshua called for them, and he spoke to them, saying, "Why have you deceived us, saying, 'We are very far from you,' when you dwell near us? Then there are things of degeneracy. Something is wrong, David. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. Israel had to live with those consequences for years to come. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. There were big problems, and one of them was the consequences and effects of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. I dont think it was a matter of God allowing the Gibeonites to put to death Sauls sons. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. I think he was looking at Adonijah and Solomon, and seeing the positioning for the throne, and he just wanted to throw up his handsflee like some bird (Psalm 139). So they thought, "Hmm. Rizpah, Lord Alfred Tennyson in 1878. We still need some more background. 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. King David was probably huffing and puffing, "I can't lift this thing! Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. We do not know when it happened. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. Where have you been, David? The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. By this time, having fought all his life since he was a teenagerup against Goliath when he was eighteen or soand here he was approaching 70 years old, and he was tired. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. It causes a problem in the way that the next generation is formed. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. It is not genetic. Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. The "Man of Steel" is just too perfect, too smart, and too invincible. King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. The time had passed. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and The two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul ( v.8 ) And David sought the face of the Lord. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. You see, famine on the scale like thisthree yearsis a sign from God that things were not copacetic in the land. How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, And how do I know this? They are two separate things. When did Saul kill these Gibeonites? The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them. WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. fit into Creation? [And the answer is] Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. This is in the second commandment. Davids choice of victims reflects at least the covenant between him and Jonathan, if not also the one between him So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." And King David rolled over and let this happen. David may have begun to think about this now, "What is going on here? As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. That generation had begun to pass. I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. When were threatened by a Philistine attack, Saul he disobeyed Jehovah by offering a sacrifice instead of waiting for Samuel to do it. A lot can happen in two years. WebThese lists are not concerned with the Gibeonites at Gibeon, but with the Benjaminite group which came to settle at Gibeon in the course of time. But certainly, David was. He asked me, "How does this incident square with what God says in Ezekiel 18:19-20?". We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. They decided to fight with the Gibeonites and teach them a lesson. (Matthew 14:1921). David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. He will not relent. This is like offering them reparations for what Saul had done, and they replied that it was not good enough. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. There is demotion. The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. Share If a person sins, he receives God's judgment for those sins. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. However, that is not the case. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. Then they replied, It was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in Israel. HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST WebA famine lasting three years hit Israel during the earlier half of David 's reign at Jerusalem. Vote Up The famine was a punishment for Sauls violation of the covenant, made with the Gibeonites back during the days of Joshua. You had to go up quite a bit. God sees behind the scenes. And Agag, he's a nice guy! Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. EVIL'S ULTIMATE END. Deuteronomy 32:4. But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. I think he was distracted because the turmoil had taken such a toll on Israel, and the famine too, that he was worried about the economy, rebuilding cities and fortifications, and his alliances with Hiram and others. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. WebTheir apostasy began with the Hivites from Gibeon, and in time, the leaven slowly spread. And when Saul saw any strong man or any valiant man, he took him for himself. Report Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. Vote Up He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Therefore, they arrive in the camp of Israel, and say, "Where's your leader? They did not ask, "God, what should we do to these people, the Gibeonites? Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. They made their dust-covered clothes to look worn and ragged as if they had been on the road for many days, even months. In other words, we want them to be just like us. I do not know when God through Samuel stripped him of the kingdom. 3:6: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? Exodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. How many died in bar-fights? And that is why God heeded the prayer of the land. I do not think that King David thought through the implications of this matter very well. What have you been thinking about?". Therefore, your kingdom is taken away and given to another. We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. So they answered Joshua and said, "Because your servants were clearly told that the LORD your God commanded His servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you.". King David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and committed colossal sins. They had a more bloody and violent systemwhich often led to blood feuds that may not ever end until a whole family or generation was gone. It is very clear, and very simplejust two little verses. Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. He resolved properlynot without a lot of death, with 70,000 dead in that plague, but at least he had the repentant attitude by the time it was over. I Samuel 14:47-48 So Saul established his sovereignty over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, against the people of Ammon, against Edom, against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines. These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. Instead, they told a story that either ignored the truth completely or, at least, shaded the truth in such a way that it was full of guile and deceit. You are no longer fit to be king." And these men, they need to be buried. It won't do anybody any good lying here dead. If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. You do not know. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. It springs out when you are not ready. He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a It is for Saul. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. 1. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". What have they done? And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. It does not require at all times that a person guilty of bloodshed die. Why wasn't I told about this?" We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. Summary:2 Samuel Chapter 212 Samuel 21 Avenging the Gibeonites A. David avenges the Gibeonites. He allowed his actions to be dictated by the Gentile principle of retributionvengeancerather than God's law on such matters. Instead, the Gibeonites demanded the execution of seven of Saul's sons. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating Spiritual Strongholds (Part Two): Faithful Trust. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. God punished Adam and Eve for their sin. Joshua 9:3-6 But when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily [remember that], and went and pretended to be ambassadors. Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who trusts in Him! He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). Let his blood be on us and on our children., Perhaps the Gibeonites are a type of the inclusion of the gentiles Romans 9:22-24. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin King Saul would conscript them into the army, and off they would go in a bloodthirsty rage against somebody else. Most, if not all, of those responsible were dead. WebThe Gibeonite Deception - Now when all the kings west of the Jordan heard about these thingsthe kings in the hill country, in the western foothills, and along the entire coast of the Mediterranean Sea as far as Lebanon (the kings of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites) they came together to wage war against Joshua and . But so did David. After that, they had their problems at Ai, and figured out that Achan was responsible for that. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? When God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, lea Vote Up Numbers 35:34 "Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.'". DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. That is the background on the Gibeonites, and their relationship with Israel. ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. God only let the rain cycle start again. In some ways, the story centers around covenants or treaties, one made between Israel and the Gibeonites in Joshua 9, another between Jonathan and David in 1 Sam. Or as the Gibeonites said Saul consumed them and tried to destroy them a people Israel had entered into a covenant with 400 years earlier. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. God is just. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? Other Translations for 2 Samuel 21:1 Discussion for 2 Samuel 21 View All Of course, a part of it is being able to look at ourselves and see how dirty, nasty, and rotten we are, and saying, "There is no way that anybody could live in this world without sin; even God's beloved Son.". In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. A good answer provides new insight and perspective. So David asked the Lord for help, and the Lord answered, Saul and his family are guilty of murder, because he had the Gibeonites killed. It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. He did this "in his zeal for. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, leaving them corrupt and faithless. II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. We have all these things coming at the end time, which is very short. I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. Think of it as if it were today. He was the king. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. Because David had been good friends with Jonathan, he at first allowed all of Sauls family to continue to live peaceably in the land. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). How long was the average lifespan at the time? Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. You are getting later and later in David's life here. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. and for his bloody house. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. He just simply rolled over. Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. 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